Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Fletcher's cove questions

DC license is needed, buy it at the boathouse.

When fishing from shore, a sinking line is a liability.  It ends up getting your fly/line tangled in the rocks.  Even with a floating line, expect to break off some flies.   When out in a boat, a full sink can help. but I had a strange experience last year.  I was out on one of those drizzly days that you have to motivate yourself to get out.  The guy next to me was fishing a floating line and bringing in one fish after another.  I was on a full sink line (T14) and while I would hook them, the fish would jump and the line would be in the shape of a giant U.  The line is going down from my rod tip but up to the fish.  I lost more fish that day than I care to think about.   The next time I go out,  I will try a sink tip with a slightly slower sink rate.  

As for spinning tackle.  Shad darts from and shad spoons work well.  I like the spoons quite a bit. sometimes I will run a heavy dart with a spoon coming off a bit above the dart.  It can make a mess in the line, but the combo gets the spoon down.  I guess splitshot would work to get the spoon down too. Light weight tackle is fine  I use 8 to 10 lb mono, which is enough for any shad I've caught.  Just make sure you have the drag set right.  Those fish will run and jump.

Carl

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On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 3:23 PM, Ben H <benmholt@gmail.com> wrote:

Apologies if some of these questions are very basic. Going to try rowboats from Fletcher's for the first time this week and wanted to know a few details.

1. Is a VA freshwater license valid in this stretch or is a D.C. License needed?

2. Full sinking line needed to catch shad from boat or will a sink tip suffice? Looks like flows will be normal for this time of year.

3. Also contemplating bringing some cheat gear (aka spinning tackle) for jigging striper. Any tips on lures and size/weight of spoons/jig heads much appreciated.

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Columbia, SC?

I've never fished the lower saluda only the upper saluda for trout. However, I do know that the lower Saluda gets really crowded this time of year with tubers. Especially with the close proximity to USC and graduation around the corner. Might be something to consider if you are going to DIY. 

-Connor 

On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 11:25:40 AM UTC-4, Connor Donovan wrote:

Heading down to Columbia this weekend for a wedding and a buddy and I are looking to kill some time on Friday and Saturday. Has anyone fished the lower Saluda or Broad/Congaree near downtown?  Would love to hear fishing experiences on either.  

I'm looking into a guide but am curious if folks have DIY experience before I consider plunking down dollars on two fisheries I didn't even know existed until 10am today.

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Shad Run 2018

As I continue to almost feverishly look for updates on this year's Shad Run and have seen little chatter about it here, I thought it might be helpful to start a thread here. I'll go first.

Saturday we stopped by Fletcher's Cove for the first time to check it out. We did not fish, but took time to read the (highish) water. Saw some promising seams and continuous line of herring jumping within casting distance from the shore. We saw some shore fishers pulling in fish, but nothing crazy.

Also noted Fletcher's update for tomorrow:

"On Monday, our Fletchers Boathouse location will close at 7:00 pm. Tomorrow is looking good for great rowboat fishing and kayak paddling. Tackle and rental shop opens early at 6:30."

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Trout fishing

A quick fishing report:   I spent 4 hrs on Beaver Creek MD Sunday morning.  The weather was cool & sunny.  Fished the fly fishing only section.  I rigged up with a 2 fly system size14 bead head black stonefly on the bottom and small size18 black spider wet fly above .  Managed to land 2 nice browns around 12 inches. They both hit the top wet fly.   Nice day to be out on the stream.  Only saw one other fisherman while I was there. 

On Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 2:22:57 PM UTC-4, Terry C wrote:

Has anyone been out trout fishing lately?  I'm thinking about a couple of MD streams over the weekend if they don't get blown out with the next round of rain.  Looking at Middle Creek  does anyone have any thoughts on it.  I have never fished it.  thanks

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Fletcher's cove questions

We use anywhere between a 3/4oz to 1.5oz jig for stripers. Jigging will be tough for the beginning part of the week with higher than average flows but hopefully it'll settle down by Thursday/Friday for a reasonable chance at jigging up a striper.  Without a motor the jig routine is difficult but you could anchor on the current seam and fish off the back of the boat or fan cast the area.  You can purchase jigs at Fletchers.

I'd go with a full sink or sinking head.  This is ideal for shad but will also give you the ability to fish for stripers. It may be a little early in the season to target them on the fly but by mid-May the current is usually slow enough to get a fly down to the bottom.

On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 3:23:29 PM UTC-4, Ben H wrote:

Apologies if some of these questions are very basic. Going to try rowboats from Fletcher's for the first time this week and wanted to know a few details.

1. Is a VA freshwater license valid in this stretch or is a D.C. License needed?

2. Full sinking line needed to catch shad from boat or will a sink tip suffice? Looks like flows will be normal for this time of year.

3. Also contemplating bringing some cheat gear (aka spinning tackle) for jigging striper. Any tips on lures and size/weight of spoons/jig heads much appreciated.

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Fletcher's cove questions

Took the words right outta my mouth,Tim. And if you're 65+ in Maryland, $5 bucks covers ALL your license needs. Seniority conveys perks. ;-)

Mark

On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 7:53:19 AM UTC-4, scer...@aol.com wrote:

Anglers 65+ do NOT need a DC fishing license....check it out at: https://doee.dc.gov/service/get-fishing-license

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Fletcher's cove questions

They sell licenses right at Fletcher's. I use a 300 grain full sinking line. The Americans in particular like to be deep.

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Fletcher's cove questions

Anglers 65+ do NOT need a DC fishing license....check it out at: https://doee.dc.gov/service/get-fishing-license

Tim Johnson

On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 9:11:36 PM UTC-4, Ben H wrote:

Thanks guys, appreciate the responses. I'll be sure to pick up a D.C. License online

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Fletcher's cove questions

Thanks guys, appreciate the responses. I'll be sure to pick up a D.C. License online

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Fletcher's cove questions

Ben, 

1.  NONE of the Potomac river is Virginia.  Though Maryland gives reciprocity, DC does not.  In the water or on the Virginia shore across from DC, you absolutely need a DC license.  So, for Fletchers, DC license is required, no ifs ands or buts about it.  I have seen cops ticketing fishermen on the Chain Bridge side with Virginia licenses.  

2.  Need is a strong word.  I use a 30-foot sinking head.  I have seen guys catch hickories with a floating line.  My advice, if you can afford it, is to get a sinking line/30-foot sinking head.  But advice aside, my practice is always I fish with what I have.  If I only had a sink-tip, I would use it.  If using a sink-tip, cast more upriver with a heavier fly (or flies) giving the tip the maximum chance to sink.  But if you're going to be at this game for the long-haul, you will want a sinking head/sinking line.  Next to my floating line, it is the next most used line I have year round and in all kinds of places.  One time on the Mobile Bay, my 250-grain sinking head saved a redfish trip in adverse conditions.  It's what I use on the Bay (along with a floater on another rod).

3.  I've been fly only for as long as I can remember, so you're better served elsewhere.  But stop and take a look at what the Fletchers shack sells.  They're some pretty heavy jigs to get down in current.

Hope this helps.  Somewhat.

On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 3:23:29 PM UTC-4, Ben H wrote:

Apologies if some of these questions are very basic. Going to try rowboats from Fletcher's for the first time this week and wanted to know a few details.

1. Is a VA freshwater license valid in this stretch or is a D.C. License needed?

2. Full sinking line needed to catch shad from boat or will a sink tip suffice? Looks like flows will be normal for this time of year.

3. Also contemplating bringing some cheat gear (aka spinning tackle) for jigging striper. Any tips on lures and size/weight of spoons/jig heads much appreciated.

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Fletcher's cove questions

Hey Ben-

This may be a bit of the blind leading the blind, but...After visiting Fletcher's for the first time yesterday (no fishing, just wanted to see if I could find it and do a little recon), I went by the Orvis shop in Arlington to get set up to try for them.

1-You need a DC license. Not sure when and how this happened, but this part of the Potomac water jurisdiction extends to the VA shoreline for both MD and DC. As I understand, if you fish from the VA shoreline, a VA license is sufficient. If you're in the water wading or in a boat you need the opposite shore's license.

2- Orvis recommended an extra fast sink leader and 12 lbs. tippet.

3-No idea.

Hopefully some of the veterans of the Shad run will weigh in and help us both out. Tight lines!

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Fletcher's cove questions

Apologies if some of these questions are very basic. Going to try rowboats from Fletcher's for the first time this week and wanted to know a few details.

1. Is a VA freshwater license valid in this stretch or is a D.C. License needed?

2. Full sinking line needed to catch shad from boat or will a sink tip suffice? Looks like flows will be normal for this time of year.

3. Also contemplating bringing some cheat gear (aka spinning tackle) for jigging striper. Any tips on lures and size/weight of spoons/jig heads much appreciated.

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Any experts out there know whether SNP is going to be blown out this weekend?

Went to a park stream on Friday 4.27. High but clear water and plenty of hungry fish. Conditions for dry flies should be better next week

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Fly Casting Rendezvous next Saturday

May 5th

Riverbottom Park, WIlliamsport MD

9am to 3pm

$25 for non FFI members

$20 for FFI members

The lead instructor will be 

FFI Master Casting Instructor, Phil Gay

See the attached flier for more details.

Carl

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} San Juan, PR

I have fished for tarpon twice I Puerto Rico. The first time I fished lagoon near the international airport. This is nursery water for juvenile tarpon and, when I was there, they were rolling on th surface everywhere. The problem is that this is brackish water so you are not sight fishing. You cast to where the just rolled but they may no longer be there. Nonetheless my son and I caught tarpon. There are several guides/outfitters that work this area.

The second place I fish, and highly recommend, is a 2 1/2 hr drive from San Juan near the town of Boqueron on the Southwest corner of PR. There is a great captain who specializes on sight fishing to schools of juvenile tarpon up to 60lbs. His name is Capt Francisco "Pochy" Rosario, aka The Tarpon Hombre. He has a very nice flats boat and can furnish fly gear if necessary. We sight cast to, and caught, tarpon continually for the 4 hrs I hired him.

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Any experts out there know whether SNP is going to be blown out this weekend?

I am by no means an expert though.  There are many here that fish these streams far more often and for a greater number of years than me

On Friday, April 27, 2018 at 4:18:37 PM UTC-4, Andrew Chaney wrote:

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Any experts out there know whether SNP is going to be blown out this weekend?

im sure fishing from skyline and hitting the upper portions of streams will be fine.  Most streams are quite fishable except when we get exceptional amounts of rain

On Friday, April 27, 2018 at 4:18:37 PM UTC-4, Andrew Chaney wrote:

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Any experts out there know whether SNP is going to be blown out this weekend?

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Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Shorts vs Pants for flats wading

I used to wear Bass Pro pants (Worldwide Sportsman) zip offs.  It made it easier to stay cool when walking the flats.

 

Then I started fishing in the Carolinas and places with oyster bars would shred the bottom of the pant legs, and also in the Potomac and sliding down rocks or rubbing up against submerged boulders and old dam construction would rip the pants up.

 

I started fishing with Patagonia Guidewater pants, and have settled on Simms Guide pants, usually in tan.  They both dry very quick and do not have zip off pants, which is fine because they're still light enough to keep me cool.

 

I have to hem my pants.  31" inseam.   Thing to look for is IF you have to have your pants hemmed, make sure you buy pants that don't have snaps or buttons on the bottom that taper the ankle.

 

Regards,

 

R

 

 

From: Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders <tidal-potomac-fly-rodders@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Rob Snowhite <rob@robsnowhite.com>
Reply-To: Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders <tidal-potomac-fly-rodders@googlegroups.com>
Date: Friday, April 27, 2018 at 9:34 AM
To: Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders <tidal-potomac-fly-rodders@googlegroups.com>
Subject: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Shorts vs Pants for flats wading

 

I have been wearing Bass Pro quick dry pants for years. Zip off knees if I want to wear Magnum PI style shorts.
What I look for in wading pants is a shorter than normal inseam. When the pants get wet they are heavy and the legs will be pulled down and I end up stepping on my bottoms on the boat and getting tripped up when wading. I look for a 28" inseam to account for the added length the pants get when wet. I normally wear a 32".

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 3:25:43 PM UTC-4, Tim Donaldson wrote:

Been dialing in my gear and clothes for a trip to the Bahamas in 3 weeks.  Question for anyone who was done any tropical flats wading:

 

Shorts or pants?  I plan on being covered up completely up top, but I don't easily burn and would much rather wear shorts.  Also, underneath should I wear my compression type smartwool boxer briefs?  Something different?

 

I've done tons of surfcasting in surf shorts, but I'm concerned about chafing while covering ground on the flats.  Any advice or insight would be appreciated.      

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} San Juan, PR

Hey guys,

I have to go to San Juan for work in a few weeks and I'm wondering if anyone has any guide/DIY recommendations in the area? Would love to check tarpon off my list.

Thanks for the help,

Connor 

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Lower Access to Jeremy’s Run No Longer Available

That's a shame. I fished Jeremy's from the top down a couple miles last summer and got nothing- there were a couple of good sized pools, but I didn't even see a single trout. I was hoping to fish from the bottom up to see if the water got any better.

How did it fish this time? Hopefully you did better than my last trip. How far down the trail did you make it?

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Lower Access to Jeremy’s Run No Longer Available

The lower access point to Jeremy's Run off of VA 611 Is no longer open. The trail head is now a gravel driveway to a construction site. It is posted no trespassing and a sign that states access to Jeremy's Run is no longer possible effective October 2017.

I'm sorry I didn't take a photo to share but I had only a small window to fish on Wednesday and was flustered by this turn of events. I instead drove around to the park and hiked in from the top. The rangers at the entrance were surprised to hear the news.

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Monocacy River

News item from Frederick News-Post

https://www.fredericknewspost.com/news/environment/pollution/the-river-s-toll-how-the-monocacy-feeds-into-the/article_f21a7dde-7eb7-56c8-9170-1954f856392a.html

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Trout fishing

I've fished it once from mouth of Spruce Run downstream. It should be at a good level even after whatever rain we get tomorrow since it's kinda small and up in the mountains. Gorgeous stream in that section and the stocking update email today said they just put 1,600 fish in there. 

On Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 2:22:57 PM UTC-4, Terry C wrote:

Has anyone been out trout fishing lately?  I'm thinking about a couple of MD streams over the weekend if they don't get blown out with the next round of rain.  Looking at Middle Creek  does anyone have any thoughts on it.  I have never fished it.  thanks

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Trout fishing

Has anyone been out trout fishing lately?  I'm thinking about a couple of MD streams over the weekend if they don't get blown out with the next round of rain.  Looking at Middle Creek  does anyone have any thoughts on it.  I have never fished it.  thanks

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Shorts vs Pants for flats wading

You probably gathered this from context, but my brothers chose shorts. Ergo the bug bites.

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Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Shorts vs Pants for flats wading

As always it depends.

Most of the flats fishing I've done has been from the deck of a flats boat. You can see so much better from up there it makes a world of difference.

If that's what you'll be doing, then 100% pants. Even if you don't burn easily, the sun out there is so strong you need to be careful. Last time I went (near Cancun), our guide must have had less than 1 square inch of skin showing, and he was very dark skinned.

If you're going to be wading, might be able to get away with shorts, but I'd worry about the space between the surface of the water and the bottom of your shorts (or even higher, depending on the angle of the sun. Yikes). The water can be as shallow as 18 inches, which could leave a fair bit of your legs exposed both to direct sun and reflection off the water.

I have lightweight pants from LLBean with legs that can zip off and on around mid thigh. Something like that might do the trick. They're light weight enough that I was pretty comfortable on a full day flats trip in 90 degree weather.

As for chafing, I don't know about you, but my problem is generally well north of the point where the pant/short distinction no longer matters. Never really been bad, but salt water isn't kind.

Full disclosure: I'm paler than most of the fish you've ever seen, so I'm a bit paranoid about covering up. Last time I managed to get burnt between the end of my long sleeves and the beginning of my sun gloves. 


On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 4:36:27 PM UTC-4, Yambag Nelson wrote:

Either work just fine.  I would wear shorts if I was exclusively wading.  I prefer pants if I am on a boat.  Personal opinion, but I wouldn't focus on trying to cover ground.  

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 3:49:15 PM UTC-4, Jeff Silvan wrote:

Completely personal preference. I wear pants, but the only times I've ever waded have been for part of the day and the rest was on the bow of the boat. I don't burn much either, but pants mean I don't have to worry about sunscreen at all. Plus, if I get hot, I can dip my legs in and even though they're quick dry, they stay damp longer than bare skin, so it keeps me cool longer. I wore regular boxers every time I waded the flats. The only time I went deeper than just above the knee was to get out of the boat at high tide. A good pair of flats boots will be critical though if you're expecting lots of coral.

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 3:25 PM, Tim Donaldson <timdon...@gmail.com> wrote:

Been dialing in my gear and clothes for a trip to the Bahamas in 3 weeks.  Question for anyone who was done any tropical flats wading:

Shorts or pants?  I plan on being covered up completely up top, but I don't easily burn and would much rather wear shorts.  Also, underneath should I wear my compression type smartwool boxer briefs?  Something different?

I've done tons of surfcasting in surf shorts, but I'm concerned about chafing while covering ground on the flats.  Any advice or insight would be appreciated.      

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Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Shorts vs Pants for flats wading

Either work just fine.  I would wear shorts if I was exclusively wading.  I prefer pants if I am on a boat.  Personal opinion, but I wouldn't focus on trying to cover ground.  

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 3:49:15 PM UTC-4, Jeff Silvan wrote:

Completely personal preference. I wear pants, but the only times I've ever waded have been for part of the day and the rest was on the bow of the boat. I don't burn much either, but pants mean I don't have to worry about sunscreen at all. Plus, if I get hot, I can dip my legs in and even though they're quick dry, they stay damp longer than bare skin, so it keeps me cool longer. I wore regular boxers every time I waded the flats. The only time I went deeper than just above the knee was to get out of the boat at high tide. A good pair of flats boots will be critical though if you're expecting lots of coral.

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 3:25 PM, Tim Donaldson <timdon...@gmail.com> wrote:

Been dialing in my gear and clothes for a trip to the Bahamas in 3 weeks.  Question for anyone who was done any tropical flats wading:

Shorts or pants?  I plan on being covered up completely up top, but I don't easily burn and would much rather wear shorts.  Also, underneath should I wear my compression type smartwool boxer briefs?  Something different?

I've done tons of surfcasting in surf shorts, but I'm concerned about chafing while covering ground on the flats.  Any advice or insight would be appreciated.      

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Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Shorts vs Pants for flats wading

Completely personal preference. I wear pants, but the only times I've ever waded have been for part of the day and the rest was on the bow of the boat. I don't burn much either, but pants mean I don't have to worry about sunscreen at all. Plus, if I get hot, I can dip my legs in and even though they're quick dry, they stay damp longer than bare skin, so it keeps me cool longer. I wore regular boxers every time I waded the flats. The only time I went deeper than just above the knee was to get out of the boat at high tide. A good pair of flats boots will be critical though if you're expecting lots of coral.

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 3:25 PM, Tim Donaldson <timdonaldson@gmail.com> wrote:

Been dialing in my gear and clothes for a trip to the Bahamas in 3 weeks.  Question for anyone who was done any tropical flats wading:

Shorts or pants?  I plan on being covered up completely up top, but I don't easily burn and would much rather wear shorts.  Also, underneath should I wear my compression type smartwool boxer briefs?  Something different?

I've done tons of surfcasting in surf shorts, but I'm concerned about chafing while covering ground on the flats.  Any advice or insight would be appreciated.      

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Shorts vs Pants for flats wading

Been dialing in my gear and clothes for a trip to the Bahamas in 3 weeks.  Question for anyone who was done any tropical flats wading:

Shorts or pants?  I plan on being covered up completely up top, but I don't easily burn and would much rather wear shorts.  Also, underneath should I wear my compression type smartwool boxer briefs?  Something different?

I've done tons of surfcasting in surf shorts, but I'm concerned about chafing while covering ground on the flats.  Any advice or insight would be appreciated.      

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: HELP NEEDED: Impromptu Oregon Fishing Trip

Best advice for the Descartes is to focus on the banks. I am not sure what is hatching this time of year as I have not fished it this early, but maybe march browns? The fly shops in may pin can help you there. Right now it is a trout game. It is a huge river but the best thing to do is ignore 90 percent of it and fish near the banks. Thee are trout throughout the river but will be fewer downstream as you move towards macks canyon.

Is there anything in particular you are looking for?

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: HELP NEEDED: Impromptu Oregon Fishing Trip

Hi there - I am going to be in Oregon next week and plan on spending a few days on the Deschutes near Maupin. Have been searching the forum archives for info and came across this post, where you offer to provide additional info on the Deschutes. I would really appreciate any info you have to offer. I land at PDX at 2 pm next Monday and will be driving straight to Maupin, where I plan to camp until Wednesday or Thursday (I may fish the Metolius on Thursday, unless I cant get enough of the Deschutes).

thanks!

Adam Tarr

On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 11:02:31 PM UTC-4, Yambag Nelson wrote:

My advice would be to drive an extra half hour and go fish the deschutes.  It is one of the great rivers in this country and should be fishing well in June. There are two very good flyshops right in Maupin that will have all the info you need.  There is tons of public water easily accessible by road.  You can just drive along and pick whatever spot looks good to you.  While it is an outstanding steelhead river they don't start showing up in numbers until late august/september, trout are the game in June.  The native redsides are some of the hardest fighting trout i have ever caught.   If you are interested in the deschutes I can provide some more info.

If you have never fished for steelhead i don't think the sandy in June is the place to start.  There might be a few fish but it is far from prime time as it is better known as a winter river.  Some of those other rivers near portland like the clackamas may have some summer brats.   Not sure. If you are dead set on the sandy there is a fly shop in welches, I would call them and see what they say.   Regardless, you can leave the sinking line at home.

On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 6:28:11 PM UTC-4, Ashley Frohwein wrote:

I just learned a few days ago that I'm traveling for work to Salem and Portland, OR this coming week and weekend. I have one free day (Saturday), and I'm looking to do some DIY wade fishing within ~1.5 hrs. of the Portland airport. Oh, and get this: I've never fished on the West Coast, nor have I ever fished for steelhead or salmon. I've tried to do some internet research, but other than the Orvis 101 salmon/stealheading videos, I haven't found much.

So here's my plan (which I need and would appreciate input on):

I'm planning to fish the Sandy River. (Do you know of any better options in the area? I need something wadeable and relatively simple, since I've only got 1 day to fish it.) I'm bringing an 8 weight (salmon) and 5 weight (trout) (both singlehanded), both with floating lines. I have a full sink line for the 8 weight, and a sinktip floating line for the 5 weight, both of which I'll be bringing. I've got some generic salmon and steelhead flies, and will pick some more up while I'm out there. I'll be using 9-11 foot 8-12 (and maybe even 16) lbs leaders.

Any advice/input would be much appreciated.

-Clueless.

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Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Difficult Run

Tom - I figured it out - Troop 1983.

On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 9:30 PM, Tom Moran <twmoran19@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Tom, thanks for dropping in.  Your name really sounds familiar to me, and I've never been a member of TU.  Potomac River Smallmouth Club perhaps?  

Some of the comments in the thread indicate brook trout were found upstream from the Dulles Toll road.  John Odenkirk thought that the death knell for those small and isolated populations was the Government Center complex just upstream from Fair Oaks Mall, which itself must have been a significant impact to the watershed.  It sounds like you were also aware of a downstream population.  

Best,

Tom

On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 11:12 AM, <tguffain@verizon.net> wrote:

From my time as a Director of the Northern Virgina Trout Unlimited in the 80s it was known that there were Brook Trout in Difficult Run.  There was a Professor from George Mason University along with graduate students  who were studying these trout.  From my discussion with them the last residual population disappeared when the Dulles toll road was constructed over Difficult Run.

Below is the Abstract from an article published in 1992 in the Journal of the Pennsylvania Academy of Science by Jeffrey E Jovich entitled "Aspects of the Ecology of an Isolated Population of Brook Trout (Salvelinus Fontinalis) in Fairfax County, Virginia".

Abstract
An isolated population of brook trout (Salvelinus fontinalis) appears to have survived in the headwaters of Difficult Run, Fairfax County, Virginia since at least 1899 when they were first reported. The presence of brook trout in Difficult Run is unusual for two reasons: 1) Difficult Run is the only stream in the area known to have been inhabitated by brook trout for so long, and 2) they are apparently the only potentially self-sustaining population of native trout in Virginia's Piedmont Province. Brook trout were sampled from 1979 to 1981 with electroshocking gear. The sex ratio was not significantly different from unity. Juveniles accounted for 38 percent of the sample. The modal size class was between 115-135 mm total length. Mean total length and weight of males and females was not significantly different. A multiplicative function suggests that weight increases at significantly less than the cube of total length, unlike most other brook trout populations. The population in a 410 meter section of stream was estimated at 65 fish. Gut contents consisted primarily of plecopterans and coleopterans. Movements of marked fish ranged from 20-150 meters between capture intervals of 7-128 days. Spawning probably occurs in November. The brook trout of Difficult Run may be a relic of a previously more widespread distribution of native trout.

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Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Difficult Run

Hi Tom, thanks for dropping in.  Your name really sounds familiar to me, and I've never been a member of TU.  Potomac River Smallmouth Club perhaps?  

Some of the comments in the thread indicate brook trout were found upstream from the Dulles Toll road.  John Odenkirk thought that the death knell for those small and isolated populations was the Government Center complex just upstream from Fair Oaks Mall, which itself must have been a significant impact to the watershed.  It sounds like you were also aware of a downstream population.  

Best,

Tom

On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 11:12 AM, <tguffain@verizon.net> wrote:

From my time as a Director of the Northern Virgina Trout Unlimited in the 80s it was known that there were Brook Trout in Difficult Run.  There was a Professor from George Mason University along with graduate students  who were studying these trout.  From my discussion with them the last residual population disappeared when the Dulles toll road was constructed over Difficult Run.

Below is the Abstract from an article published in 1992 in the Journal of the Pennsylvania Academy of Science by Jeffrey E Jovich entitled "Aspects of the Ecology of an Isolated Population of Brook Trout (Salvelinus Fontinalis) in Fairfax County, Virginia".

Abstract
An isolated population of brook trout (Salvelinus fontinalis) appears to have survived in the headwaters of Difficult Run, Fairfax County, Virginia since at least 1899 when they were first reported. The presence of brook trout in Difficult Run is unusual for two reasons: 1) Difficult Run is the only stream in the area known to have been inhabitated by brook trout for so long, and 2) they are apparently the only potentially self-sustaining population of native trout in Virginia's Piedmont Province. Brook trout were sampled from 1979 to 1981 with electroshocking gear. The sex ratio was not significantly different from unity. Juveniles accounted for 38 percent of the sample. The modal size class was between 115-135 mm total length. Mean total length and weight of males and females was not significantly different. A multiplicative function suggests that weight increases at significantly less than the cube of total length, unlike most other brook trout populations. The population in a 410 meter section of stream was estimated at 65 fish. Gut contents consisted primarily of plecopterans and coleopterans. Movements of marked fish ranged from 20-150 meters between capture intervals of 7-128 days. Spawning probably occurs in November. The brook trout of Difficult Run may be a relic of a previously more widespread distribution of native trout.

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Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Sun Gloves. Necessary?

I like sun gloves. I keep a pair in my bag. I don't use them religiously. But sometimes they can make all the difference. There are days when I forget a more serious pair of gloves and it's cold out, and the sun gloves cut the wind just enough to make the cold tolerable. Another situation is when I'm doing a lot of aggressive stripping, like when shad fishing or esox fishing, and it's nice to have a buffer between the line and your skin. Just my 2 cents.

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: COG invites region's residents to experience Anacostia River progress

If they can clean the south platte enough to hold trout again,  then there is probably still hop for the anacostia! The water trail view is pretty cool.   

On Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 3:00:02 PM UTC-4, namfos wrote:

I think just about all of us are "all in" for the recovery of the Anacostia. FYI: http://bit.ly/2F2prJE

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Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Difficult Run

As an alternative to angling or stream observation in the quixotic quest for extinct brookies, one could stick a GoPro under every cut bank or exposed root structure and watch the video carefully on a rainy day.   If I find a new darter do I get to name it?

Etheostoma route66i  doesn't really sing, does it?

Andrew, I see you've done a bit of GoPro on a stick.  I've snorkeled the Cacapon a few times when it was clear and generated some nice spotfin shiner and redbreast videos, with the occasional smallmouth wandering by looking for something to eat.  Darters too, including greenside.  I haven't tried to plunge one under a bank yet, might be revealing.  Last weekend when I fished below the Vale Rd crossing I saw very few fish but there were a lot there.  Would have been a nice option to see what I was missing.

On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 1:45 PM, Andrew Sarcinello <andysarce@gmail.com> wrote:

John,

I am a stormwater engineer and am quite familiar with the county's stormwater management practices and facilities. I have inspected hundreds of detention ponds in the past few years. Unfortunately the downstream fish communities are seldom considered when these are designed, especially older facilities, although the reduction in runoff and erosion is quite significant which certainly helps. You are spot on with the observation about temps. The only exception is some much larger ponds have the outflow pipe openings on the bottom of the concrete box riser structure to help release cooler water. But in a 10-20 ft deep pond there's only so much that setup can do, unfortunately.

On Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 8:53:54 AM UTC-4, John Smith wrote:

Couple more anecdotes. I actually went back to the same area in the early 90s and caught a couple brown trout (unfortunately no pics of these) so I know there were trout of some kind as late as the early nineties.

In the past, water temps in the reaches above the Hunter Mill Road crossing were very cool in the summer. We had a swimming hole up that way and I can attest to the temps being way below 80. There are considerably more housing developments now with various water retention ponds which help with runoff and sedimentation, but not temps, especially the wet ponds. They just warm things up. The upper tribs actually had very few game fish to speak of. We never caught bass of any kind or redbreast sunfish. There were bluegill, green sunfish, and a hybrid of those two in the mainstem, but we never caught them in the upper tribs. When I last fished Difficult just upstream of Tamarack, there were bass and redbreast in there. 

I seriously doubt any trout are still around, but I agree with Andrew that small populations of rare species are very hard to keep track of. One example I remember is the brook trout in Severn Run near Annapolis. They may be gone now too, but they eluded folks for years.  I haven't researched what the master plan for the basin is, but if development has stabilized there might be some potential for reintroduction to a couple of the headwaters that have the lowest amount of impervious surfaces.  Wish my commute took me past there, I would collect some temp data for a season to see for myself.

On Wednesday, April 18, 2018 at 11:57:46 PM UTC-4, Andrew Sarcinello wrote:

John, that is so cool that you actually have a picture of one of those brookies! Thanks for sharing! I can imagine it was at one time a pretty productive stream. All those tributaries would have made for a healthier population. But a highway interchange built right on the headwaters is about the worst thing imaginable for a brook trout stream.

As for the fish in the pond, the description sure sounds like a brook trout, and they have been known to survive in very low densities for long after the majority of the population is depleted. Many Gunpowder tributaries are a good example of this. There is a stream near my parent's house in PA where every few years I will randomly see a lone brook trout even though it is a very good brown trout stream and electrofishing surveys have never turned up a brook trout. They are quite good at finding a way to barely hang on, and I actually don't think road crossing themselves are a death sentence to these fish because the deep culvert pools can provide refuge when stormwater impacts have wrecked literally every other potential hiding spot on the stream.

Interestingly, the USGS gage on lower difficult run has a water temp reading. Last year it peaked around 80. While that is harmful to brook trout reproductive health it is not definitively lethal, though it's close for sure. Imagine that the headwaters and tribs are a couple degrees cooler and now you're talking about something they can certainly survive, though with a lot of stress.  Now, whether there is suitable spawning substrate and in stream cover for them to sustain a population... doubtful.

I wouldn't say it's totally impossible for there to still be a few brook trout hidden in there somewhere, but I do think it's extremely unlikely. If the fish seen in the pond was indeed a brook trout, there's always the possibility it was brought in by bucket from some mountain stream. And, of course, maybe it wasn't a brook trout at all.

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{Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} COG invites region's residents to experience Anacostia River progress

I think just about all of us are "all in" for the recovery of the Anacostia. FYI: http://bit.ly/2F2prJE

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