Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Snakes, Chacos and Brookies - a Sunday Funday down the tubes

Thanks Miles. Yes, I'd very much appreciate getting that article. It looks like Wikipedia has caught up to those recommendations, too, and gives just a smattering of rationale, under "Outdated": https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snakebite

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Jeff Cook

macuaig@icloud.com

On Jun 22, 2018, at 11:59 AM, 'Miles Townes' via Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders <tidal-potomac-fly-rodders@googlegroups.com> wrote:

The same article says for hospital staff: "Victims of bites from venomous snakes require aggressive supportive care and sometimes the administrationof antivenom. Once airway, breathing, and circulation have been established, a rapid, detailed history should be obtained." It then talks about the process for deciding whether to administer antivenom.

Fwiw, it says that copperhead bites are considered less toxic than rattlesnake or cottonmouth bites, and "rarely require treatment". The article is behind a paywall but I got a copy from sci-hub that I can email, if you want to read the whole thing.

I am curious, too, what the plan would be if evacuation is not an option. AWLS says basically: get to a hospital. https://awls.org/wilderness-medicine-case-studies/our-recommendations-for-snakebite-treatment/ NOLS says the same thing: https://blog.nols.edu/2018/02/26/case-study-what-to-do-about-snakebites I couldn't find a reputable site that said anything else. 

Depending on the snake, I suppose you could wait it out. Maybe if it was a copperhead, you would recover on your own enough in a few days to paddle out. I'd take the helicopter ride. And I guess part of the thrill of the wilderness is really having only yourself to rely on.

But I wouldn't worry about it too much. It seems to me there are lots of other more likely injuries you might face, that also would require a helicopter - broken arm, dislocated shoulder, tendon rupture, severe diarrhea. Helicopter evac should be a contingency in your plans, but granted a remote one.

For me the definitive statement on the merit of helicopter rescues is this Boatertalk review, from about 20 years ago: https://boatertalk.com/review/586

Miles

On Friday, June 22, 2018, 10:40:55 AM EDT, Jeff Cook <macuaig@icloud.com> wrote:

Then I'm curious what happens at the hospital? With no anti venom, no tourniquet, no anti swelling, no cuts, no suction, these new guidelines seem to have removed the treatments. (Electroshock is a new one on me.) 

Are they just saying these things need to be done under supervision?

I'm making plans to be kayaking alone often, and I don't think I'll be helicoptering over to the ER. Surely there's room for a wilderness plan for snakebites in this era?

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http://www.tpfr.org
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